Funsmith Fireside Chats Episode #6
Guest: Kevin Caldwell and Dr. Kelly Tran
In this episode, we discuss the differences that come with developing games for kids, especially the ethical considerations of creating products for children and balancing monetary gain with mindful design.
Our two experts (the first design duo we’ve had on our show!) explain their backgrounds and what motivated them to purse this path of weaving learning and kids games together.
Dr. Kelly Tran and Kevin Caldwell are the founders of Evolved Play, a “Games and Learning” company that focuses on designing ethically and creating software that helps kids develop not just as players, but as human beings. Specifically to help learn life lessons in a seem less and effortless way.
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Listen to The Full Episode
Audio:
#6: Dr. Kelly Tran & Kevin Caldwell: Design Video Games That Makes Learn Effortless
Podcast Platforms:
Referenced Links & Resources
Connect with Doctor Kelly Tran:
Twitch | Twitter | LinkedIn | Website
Connect with Kevin Caldwell:
Connect with Alex:
Connect with Ari:
Mentioned Resources:
SEL – Social Emotional Learning
Game Design Learning Resources:
Episode Chapters (with Timestamp)
0:00 – Introduction
1:11 – Greetings and welcomes
2:42 – Kelly talks about the alignment between game mechanics and learning outcomes
4:23 – The funny story of how Kelly and Kevin met each other
6:35 – Kelly’s background in research, design, and teaching
8:17 – Kevin’s experience in industrial design, team sports, and game development
9:48 – The role of chance and synchronicity in creating new experiences
10:22 – Communication styles and friction when collaborating remotely
11:59 – How company culture is becoming more accessible, appreciative, and flexible
13:28 – Learning from working at Riot – creating space for different perspectives in teamwork
14:10 – What makes a good work environment in game studios today?
15:55 – Kevin recalls his best and worst work experiences at different companies
17:10 – Kelly’s decision to leave academia behind and change her life path
20:05 – Role models for underrepresented groups – the importance of visibility and mentoring others
20:59 – Alex shares why he left the industry to pursue a teaching career
22:41 – What’s cooking at Evolved Play – current projects
24:06 – Play testing with kids – educational and fun
26:42 – The importance of lean development for children’s games – finding the right challenge
28:18 – Knowing when and where to use uncertainty – and how it affects play behavior
29:48 – Lessons to be learned from game mechanics – using Mario Party as an example
31:57 – What led Kelly to pursue a PhD in game design in the first place
34:06 – Kevin’s children as a source of inspiration and motivation for his work
38:49 – What changes with age – thoughts on health, self-care and family life
41:00 – Women in leadership positions – positive changes in the workplace
43:47 – Benefits and challenges of remote work as it relates to family and self-management
46:06 – Socio-emotional learning (SEL) – teaching values and soft skills to young players
47:45 – The potential of engaging RPG narrative to help kids learn
49:32 – The problem with screen time: how to prevent over-engagement and addictive gaming?
53:08 – How to teach kids grit and resilience through gaming experiences?
55:07 – Kevin’s own experiences with emotional regulation.
56:08 – Commercialization of games: exploitation of player involvement and emotional distress.
58:13 – Ethical game design – focus on quality screen time rather than maximizing screen time
01:00:19 – Monetization practices in games that are unhealthy for children
More Guest Quotes From This Episode
“We’re looking at creating a digital landscape, an environment that can help kids and families learn in a really productive and healthy way.”
“Early experience testing is fundamental in thinking about game development, how to design and produce games, and develop quality games.”
“Recognizing that everybody has a different and valid perspective, thinking how to make space and facilitate the team and product development and product release with as many voices represented as possible in working towards starting and building the company is very important.”
“It’s so important when you’re working on a team together, you’re going to be spending a majority of your life with these folks, sharing ideas needing to be vulnerable, expressing those ideas and being to work through difficult problems. In some ways, it’s an extremely serious relationship, and other times you want to be able to have levity, lightness, moments, alignment, and how you connect with each other.”
“User-testing with kids is so much wider like in any other context because they’re humans with totally different perspectives, then finding out that the kids really love exploring and moving around.”
“Kids give honest and great feedback, usually not too worried about your feelings, which is great because we can iterate on that, and some of the suggestions from kids are really nice.”
“The exploration, the discovery, is very synonymous with life, but with kids, it’s like how do you navigate, where and why do you choose to go, what are you looking for, etc. Kids don’t necessarily have the answers to those questions, but they have the motivation, the interest, which has been really exciting to see.”
“Knowing when and where to put uncertainty, and the way of expressing it is incredibly important in a game.”
“Creating something that would allow us to enjoy our child, and be there for a child, and learn from her as much as she’s learning from us is part of our aspiration to grow.”
“Create life that is balanced and allows us to learn from the variety of experiences that we have.”
“There’s more to life than us burning ourselves out to create a product.”
“Self-management is one of the things that we’re focusing on with our product. It’s like how do we help kids develop healthy habits and perspectives on longevity.”
“If there were more women in leadership to begin with at a lot of companies where the crunch was so bad, it probably wouldn’t have gotten bad. Women have always been the ones who are the caretakers and have to think about being home with the family.”
“SEL or Social Emotional Learning is the framework that we were working from. It’s a productive teaching of soft skills.”
What was your favorite part from this episode?
Please share your thoughts in the comments below.
One Response
Great episode… seems like there are alot of predatory practices. Glad you are advocating for ethical design practices